This interview can be listen to here.
The research paper being discussed can be read here or by clicking on the image below:
Transcription of the LBC interview [if there are any mistakes in this please contact hole ousia]
LBC Interviewer: “I am very cynical but maybe someone will change my mind?”
“Here is Professor John Read. He is a Professor of Clinical Psychology at the University of East London”
“Good morning John. Do you agree that almost half of long-term antidepressant users like me could actually give up with GP support?”
Prof John Read: “Yes, Ian, good morning, that’s probably true but let’s first get this in context, the size of the problem that this study has addressed. We currently have 8.5 million people in England prescribed antidepressants every year. That is 1 in 6 of us. And it is even higher for women, older people and people in deprived areas. Now studies are showing us that about half of those people, when they try to stop antidepressants will experience withdrawal effects. This is a fairly new finding that the drug companies kept buried from us for decades”
LBC Interviewer: “Hmm, I am sure I would”
Prof John Read: “And, and of those, half report those withdrawal effects as severe. So that’s 2 million people, when they try to stop the antidepressants that they are currently on will experience severe withdrawal effects. That is why this study is so important. It i showing that about 40% of people can get off gradually with some help from the GP if there is a helpline available to them 24 hours, online or by phone. That is really important, because, em, many of us have been trying to get this helpline off the ground since Public Health England [PHE] recommended it in 2019. One of the many things the NHS has not been able to afford to do because of Tory under-funding of the NHS. It also means that the other 60% of people who can’t get off, even with that sort of support and they will need dedicated withdrawal support services”
LBC Interviewer: “What about someone like me who just doesn’t want to give up? My life’s great. My life’s fine. Before antidepressants and a mood stabiliser my life was absolute hell. It’s now fine. Why not just leave me alone?”
Prof John Read: “Oh, that’s absolutely fine. People who want to stay on them, on the drugs, that is absolutely their right. We are talking about most people will at some point, not everybody, may at some point want to either reduce or come off after they have been on for years. If only to find out whether they are feeling better because of the drugs or because they are just feeling better and they might not need the drugs with a [interrupted by interviewer]
LBC Interviewer: “But you would agree that there are some people for whom mental illness is just a chemical imbalance and that we need to readdress that balance?”
Prof John Read: “No, I am afraid not. The chemical imbalance theory was completely debunked in the last 2 or 3 years [interrupted by interviewer]
LBC Interviewer: “Oh that’s nonsense”
Prof John Read: “That is a myth generated by the drug companies. There is no chemical imbalance there, to em, correct. Most depression, not all . . . . . . most depression is caused by depressing things happening and drugs cannot address those. But, yes, some people find the drugs helpful and it sounds like you are one of those and I am glad to hear that”
LBC Interviewer: “More than helpful. Life saving. Literally”
Prof John Read: “Absolutely, excellent, that is really good. But a lot of people will try and come off or reduce at some point and will need some help”
LBC Interviewer: “Yeah, right”
Prof John Read: “And other people like yourself will carry on taking them. But those who try to come off will experience great difficulty [interviewer appears to sigh] and the problem is, at the minute that is getting mis-diagnosed as the problem coming back, you know depression [interrupted by interviewer]”
LBC Interviewer: “Yeah, No I have heard this. This is, yours is the argument Tom Cruise uses. Which is basically that all these drugs do is mask the problem, you are not dealing with the problem. To which I would say, having experienced it, they do deal with the problem. They may mask it, but if I am on these things for the rest of my life so be it.”
Prof John Read: “Absolutely, No, I agree, I am not . . . [interrupted by interviewer]”
LBC Interviewer: “OK. But you said that there is no such thing as a chemical imbalance. Of course there is!”
Prof John Read: “No, I am sorry to say that the evidence is quite clear that . . there is no research evidence [interrupted by interviewer]”
LBC Interviewer: “Well, I wish we had more time”
Prof John Read: “It doesn’t mean that the drugs don’t work for some people [interview laughs/scoffs] They have worked for you and that is good. There doesn’t have to be a chemical imbalance for these drugs to help you. Anyway, this study is about helping people come off [interrupted by interviewer} if they want to”
LBC Interviewer: “Right, okay. Fine.”
Prof John Read: “We are going to have to fund these services to help these 2 million people when they want to come off”
LBC Interviewer: “Yeah, okay, fair enough, thank you very much indeed”