Last Thursday I heard Shona Robison, Deputy First Minister for the Scottish Government, on BBC Radio Scotland. She was asked about transparency, truthfulness and integrity in relation to Scottish Government:
Good Morning Scotland, Radio Scotland, Thursday 23rd November 2023.
[Transcription of the last four minutes of the interview ]
Gary Robertson [Presenter]: “The Scottish Parliament’s Corporate Body is meeting today to look at the Michael Mathieson situation as regards his i-Pad. Keith Brown, your colleague, on this programme earlier this week said that there were still unanswered questions. As a point of principle do Ministers in the Scottish Government always tell Parliament and the public the truth?”
Shona Robison [MSP and Deputy First Minister]: “Well, look, Michael Mathieson has, eh, set out, eh, to Parliament, eh, his statement, eh, last week. And of course he has said that he will cooperate with any inquiry that is established. And obviously we will need to wait and see what the Corporate Body have to say about that: so that if there are any remaining questions for Michael Mathieson to answer then he has said he will absolutely cooperate with any inquiry that the Parliament wish to establish.”
Gary Robertson [Presenter]: “Do Ministers in the Scottish Government always tell Parliament and the Scottish public the truth?”
Shona Robison [MSP and Deputy First Minister]: “Well, look, eh, I aim and the Scottish Government aims, eh, to do that and we have been working, em, extremely hard to make sure we have provided information where we have been asked to do that, em, and of course we have improved our FOI performance for example to try to make sure that where information is sought from the Scottish Government its given in a timely and accurate fashion.”
Gary Robertson [Presenter]: “But in the Michael Mathieson situation he told Parliament that he knew the real story of his i-Pad data bill on Thursday 9th October [sic], yet on Monday 13th he told the BBC the data bill was racked-up because of the old SIM card. That wasn’t true, was it? That statement on Monday the 13th?”
Shona Robison [MSP and Deputy First Minister]: “Well, look, he has made, Michael Mathieson has made his statement that, em, he was trying to protect his family, em, from being part of the associated . . . [interrupted by Presenter]”
Gary Robertson [Presenter]: “. . . so is it okay for ministers to lie? Is it okay for ministers to lie to protect their family?”
Shona Robison [MSP and Deputy First Minister]: “No, em, I, I, didn’t say that . . . what I am saying that is Michael Mathieson set out the reasons that he was trying to protect his family. He set all of that out to Parliament and as I said earlier he has said that he will cooperate with any inquiry that is established”
Gary Robertson [Presenter]: “But by his own admission, in setting that out to Parliament, he made it clear that what he said on Monday the 13th was not true. What sanction should he now face?”
Shona Robison [MSP and Deputy First Minister]: “Well, as I said, that is for Parliament to answer. If Parliament wants to do some kind of inquiry to . . . [interrupted by Presenter]”
Gary Robertson [Presenter]: “. . . is it not for the Scottish Government to answer if you have a minister who isn’t truthful?”
Shona Robison [MSP and Deputy First Minister]: “Well, first and foremost, this is a matter for Parliament and Parliament has, eh, said that . . . [interrupted by Presenter]”
Gary Robertson [Presenter]: “. . . it is a matter for the First Minister surely? Isn’t it?”
Shona Robison [MSP and Deputy First Minister]: “Well, look, the First Minister of course has met with Michael Mathieson and this, eh, primarily is a matter for Parliament. And as Michael Mathieson has said himself he will cooperate with any inquiry. If there are further questions, like the ones you have just put to me to be answered, then Michael Mathieson has made clear that he will cooperate with any inquiry established by the Parliament in order to do so.”
Gary Robertson [Presenter]: “Thank you very much for speaking to us this morning. Shona Robison is the Deputy First Minister, the Cabinet Secretary for Finance.”
On the same day, in Parliament at First Minister’s Questions the first two questions put to the First Minister [by leaders of different parties] made reference to the above interview.
The full exchanges are available on the Scottish Parliament website but the contributions below were the ones that resonated with my own experience:
My example to add to the list of failures of the Scottish Government to be open and transparent relates, absurdly, to openness and transparency. On the 26 June 2017, as then Health Minister for the Scottish Government Shona Robison was giving a keynote talk at the International Congress of the Royal College of Psychiatrists in Edinburgh. When I saw her arrive at the Conference centre I went up to her and introduced myself and asked if I might ask her a question? She kindly said “yes”. I asked what progress the Scottish Government had made with introducing Sunshine legislation? She replied “A what?” and then said she had to go as she had an important address to give.
At this time my petition with the Scottish Parliament, PE1493, for the Scottish Government to introduce a Sunshine Act, had been running for well over 3 years with extensive communications between the Scottish Parliament and Scottish Government.
In January 2018 Shona Robison, as Health Minister, signed off the decision not to introduce Sunshine legislation. This was despite the fact that the majority of those consulted in an independent consultation agreed that Sunshine legislation should be introduced . The decision not to introduce Sunshine legislation was not shared at the time. Not with me as petitioner, not with the Scottish Parliament, and most importantly not with the Scottish public. I have documented here the long and difficult process of gaining access to this information many details of which remain redacted.
Shona Robison is certainly not the only politician to start her responses to difficult questions with the somewhat patronising phrase “Well, look“. Yet again I am struck by the absurdity of being urged to “look” at something that those in power have chosen to keep hidden.